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larryl 
Rocks in your Head
Registration Date: 06-01-2004
Posts: 18,657
Location: hotlanta
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Originally posted by Kit
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Originally posted by ragingbull4891
yo thanks for the info but i hate christian music. Sorry. some of it is interesting but some of it is pretty is just too out there for me. But thanks again. Seriously. |
Well we only like Christian music if it says "Jesus" in it. That's why we're not all really 77s fans. Mike Roe pays us in guitar lessons to post here. |
this is made funnier because you said it, kit.
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06-11-2007 20:10 |
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Alex
Mr. Magoo
Registration Date: 05-01-2005
Posts: 894
Favorite 77s album: Eighty Eight
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
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Hmm... just assume for a second that there is a God who interacts with his believer's lives. Shouldn't people with this kind of "God connection" be able to make better music (and art in general) than those without?
Sadly, I agree, many don't. I'm not talking about the CCM music industry which is more about artisans than artists. But some are out there... think Proto- Kaw, Phil Keaggy, Frank Marino, Place of Skulls, U2, Over the Rhine, Violet Burning, Starflyer59, 77s (of course)... well, these are just my 2cents. I highly recommend the "Now playing" thread in the "Other music" forum - there's some good stuff mentioned.
After all, I not only hate 75% of popular christian music but also 90% of popular secular music. 
So I fully understand Mr.LaMotta's viewpoint.
Alex
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06-12-2007 00:00 |
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MarkyMark77
Drowning with Land in Sight
Registration Date: 03-24-2005
Posts: 465
Favorite 77s album: 99
Location: Illinois
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| Hmm... just assume for a second that there is a God who interacts with his believer's lives. Shouldn't people with this kind of "God connection" be able to make better music (and art in general) than those without? |
This has been my complaint for years. Christian music should be the best music, artistically. Our biggest Biblical examples of art in literature and music (David and Solomon) created masterworks.
When I first gave my life to Christ, I checked out a lot of music only to find that the bands were third-rate copies of secular bands, without any real meat to the message. Then I bought Adam Again's "Dig". Wow. What a different animal altogether. Then "Pray Naked", "LRRH", etc., until I realized that this is what my faith sounds like. Totally honest, intelligent, fun and hard, all encompassed in my now-favorite bands.
I went to Christian college where I would pick fights with people about music, specifically the CCM of the day. Man I was a jerk...Now I'm a minister...
I got a big kick out of my new Christian friends (they were good guys, but had no real discernment about music). No matter what you liked in secular music, Petra was always the answer. You like Public Enemy? You'll love Petra. You like the Smiths? Petra is so totally like the Smiths except that they love Jesus. Metallica? Petra. Kiss? Petra. Ramones? Frank Zappa? New Kids on the Block? Go buy a Petra CD. It was amazing how you could pick the secular hits they had copied for their new CD. I'm sure they thought that was how they could reach people or something. And I'm sure they're not bad guys, either. But write your own stuff, for crying out loud!
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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by MarkyMark77: 06-12-2007 07:14.
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06-12-2007 07:11 |
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Kit
Flower in the Sand
Registration Date: 06-02-2004
Posts: 1,695
Location: AUSKIMG TEGSAGS
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I don't know too many Christian artists who have actually shot for being a substitute for anybody, even the ones that suck. The problem lies with people wanting substitutes. They feel like listening to their former favorite secular artist is a sin, so they want a substitute. But you can't replace an artist. That's the reason why you liked them so much to begin with. They have no equivalent. There may be other artists that are as good at what they do, but not one that sounds the same. I feel comfortable saying "OK, you like The Smiths? You might like The Choir or the first Throes album. But they don't sound like The Smiths." I believe in comparing artists stylistically, because then it's an issue of recommending something based on someone's taste. That's perfectly viable. But, I would never say something like "Daniel Amos is the Christian XTC", "Mortal is the Christian Nine Inch Nails", or "PFR is the Christian Jellyfish".
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06-12-2007 23:04 |
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77 bc
Radioactive Hatchling
Registration Date: 11-17-2004
Posts: 9,890
Favorite 77s album: The one's Mike plays guitar on
Location: Springtown
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this thread is very entertaining.
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"tell me, what's worth more
what you'll lie for or
what you'll die for
i follow my heart
and it lies and it lies
and i don't understand it"
~ Roe/Harmon ~ "Woody"
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06-13-2007 05:33 |
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Nailtatt
Rocks in your Head
Registration Date: 05-28-2004
Posts: 24,078
Favorite 77s album: Sticks and Stones
Location: The NFP
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Originally posted by Kit
I don't know too many Christian artists who have actually shot for being a substitute for anybody, even the ones that suck. The problem lies with people wanting substitutes. They feel like listening to their former favorite secular artist is a sin, so they want a substitute. But you can't replace an artist. That's the reason why you liked them so much to begin with. They have no equivalent. There may be other artists that are as good at what they do, but not one that sounds the same. I feel comfortable saying "OK, you like The Smiths? You might like The Choir or the first Throes album. But they don't sound like The Smiths." I believe in comparing artists stylistically, because then it's an issue of recommending something based on someone's taste. That's perfectly viable. But, I would never say something like "Daniel Amos is the Christian XTC", "Mortal is the Christian Nine Inch Nails", or "PFR is the Christian Jellyfish". |
Well said Kit. I hate the substitute deal! If you like it LISTEN TO IT!
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06-13-2007 06:24 |
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Audiori J
unregistered
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I think another aspect of why a huge portion of 'christian' music is pretty lame is because the Christian music industry is a subculture bubble. I think the requirements for becoming an artist signed to a record label are much lower inside that bubble than out. Outside that bubble its much more dog eat dog, you actually have to have entertainment value of some kind to set yourself apart.
But inside that bubble, the industry is much more accepting with basically only one requirement.. the message. You are not original, you are not that talented, you sound like so and so only with a christian message... you are in. Artists like carman or petra can excell because of the message.
Another aspect is that generally outside that bubble people get into the music business to make music. Inside that bubble, there are those who make music to 'reach the kids'. The 'music' is a tool, I have even heard christian people explain it that way. Which is kind of true, but it becomes a means to an end instead of the end itself. The message is king, the music can be subpar. Outside the bubble that just doesn't fly because nobody really cares what your message is as long as the music is top notch according to their tastes.
Bands like the 77s, DA, Keaggy, Over The Rhine, etc are Christian musicians who are focused on the music first and the message comes out because its where they are as people. Its a different perspective.
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06-13-2007 06:39 |
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snowblind
Unbalanced
Registration Date: 03-28-2006
Posts: 1,255
Favorite 77s album: Sticks and Stones
Location: Georgia
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06-13-2007 07:59 |
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ragingbull4891
Someone New
Registration Date: 06-07-2007
Posts: 6
Favorite 77s album: pray naked
Location: carpinteria
Thread Starter 
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you guys are so mean dude. I said i was sorry and you still rub it in my face. I listenined to the music on the album and didnt like their versions. Not to be judgmental but i thought it was very typical of the worship or christian or whatever musical scene.....and it is a scene. why do you think pray naked couldnt be shown on the title of the song? All im saying is....i never should of come to ask this site for anything because you guys obviously hate outsiders. peace out.
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06-13-2007 16:45 |
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Kit
Flower in the Sand
Registration Date: 06-02-2004
Posts: 1,695
Location: AUSKIMG TEGSAGS
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Originally posted by ragingbull4891
you guys are so mean dude. I said i was sorry and you still rub it in my face. I listenined to the music on the album and didnt like their versions. Not to be judgmental but i thought it was very typical of the worship or christian or whatever musical scene.....and it is a scene. why do you think pray naked couldnt be shown on the title of the song? All im saying is....i never should of come to ask this site for anything because you guys obviously hate outsiders. peace out. |
Nobody's slingin' any mud your way. Just playful ribbing. It happens often, and I've been on the receiving end of it on more than one occasion. But if you go on "Christian music sucks" tirades, you are going to find yourself preaching to the choir more often than not.
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06-13-2007 18:40 |
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Alex
Mr. Magoo
Registration Date: 05-01-2005
Posts: 894
Favorite 77s album: Eighty Eight
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
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Sorry LaMotta - didn't mean to offend you.
We just have the continuing need to discuss this subject because it's something everyone of us christians has to find an opinion to. It's not at all about rubbing something into someone's face.
There are a lot of nonchristians out there who demand music to be good in an artful and honest way. You have christians who don't care much about artistic originality as long as the "message" is right (to them). Then you have those who say that the "message" is not just brought by the lyrics but more through a life according to God's will - and music's just a small part of it. Some separate "modern church music" which is mostly mass- singalong- three- chord- worship- music from "non- service" music which is meant to entertain and to show creativity and artistic integrity (hopefully). On the other hand - music is there to show the character of the world and of God. So if God's music is boring we're tempted to believe he himself might be boring, too.
But that's just a symptom of the market. Most christians have an infant's artistic taste. They demand simple music with simple messages, so as a matter of fact that's what the christian industry produces for them. Those who ask for creativity and artistic integrity in christian music are few. So the bands who offer this are few, too. I'm not judging but that's the way it is. Sad but true.
We just need to discuss this over and over again. The questions you've been asking and the statements you made are vitally important to us christian rock fans and musicians. I believe that the body of christ has to mature in a lot of ways. One of them is music. And I want to be among the first who start to grow up spiritually.
Alex
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06-14-2007 05:48 |
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