 77s site |
DaLe 
Mr. Magoo
Registration Date: 06-01-2004
Posts: 1,060
Location: MiNNeSoTa - HeRe we put salt on the Roads... Lord, Help me be Salt of the Earth - NoT Salt in the Wound. so, take most everything I SaY HeRe with a grain of Salt !
 |
|
http://uu.cx/77s/
check out the tangentæ area... interesting...
soapbox
ego
__________________
|
|
02-04-2005 06:09 |
|
|
TJ 2.0
Flower in the Sand
Registration Date: 09-13-2004
Posts: 1,701
Favorite 77s album: Island/Sticks and Stones/88
Location: yes.
|
|
While he makes some good points there, I don't know that I agree 1005 with him. But he definately makes valid points.
But what I find interesting, is that for all the ranting about "Christian" music, and it's need to be NOT separated from the 'whole' of the music industry, he continually makes a distinction when referring to DA/The Choir/77s, calling them "Christian" bands. Hmmm..........
|
|
|
02-04-2005 07:54 |
|
|
Marti
Radioactive Crow
Registration Date: 06-01-2004
Posts: 10,098
Favorite 77s album: Drowning with Land in Sight
|
|
What are the valid points for those of us who can't get there, please?
__________________
“This Jesus that the Christians speak of, he sounds like a good man. Why don’t they follow his teachings?” - Crazy Horse
|
|
|
02-04-2005 10:14 |
|
|
rob 3.0
Radioactive Crow
Registration Date: 05-28-2004
Posts: 12,194
Favorite 77s album: Drowning With Land in Sight
Location: Where the River Bends
|
|
| quote: |
Originally posted by TJ 2.0
While he makes some good points there, I don't know that I agree 1005 with him. But he definately makes valid points.
But what I find interesting, is that for all the ranting about "Christian" music, and it's need to be NOT separated from the 'whole' of the music industry, he continually makes a distinction when referring to DA/The Choir/77s, calling them "Christian" bands. Hmmm.......... |
I also agree with a lot of what he says but definately not all of what he says.
__________________
And so I say, I don't know why, I don't know why
The years go down, the years turn 'round
And now it's comin' down it's comin' down again
Was I ever on the inside?
|
|
|
02-04-2005 10:49 |
|
|
carl
Flower in the Sand
Registration Date: 06-02-2004
Posts: 1,884
Favorite 77s album: The Funky Crow Thang
Location: Loveland, CO.... "I told my mother when I was four years old I wanted to be a Rock and Roll singer and a dishwasher. And that's kinda how it's worked out."
|
|
1) Don't anybody talk to him about Christianity; 2) He was nonetheless raised on Christian music and still enjoys the 7s; 3) He thinks The Funky Crow Thang is "fun and anguish-free" 
__________________
(this is my official work photo, BTW... 
)
|
|
|
02-04-2005 10:49 |
|
|
TJ 2.0
Flower in the Sand
Registration Date: 09-13-2004
Posts: 1,701
Favorite 77s album: Island/Sticks and Stones/88
Location: yes.
|
|
cut and paste from the site:
tangentæ
The 77's are one of my favorite pop bands. Quite simply, I think this group is comprised of very talented, creative artists who surround themselves with very talented, creative artists. But these guys hold a special place in my life for a lot of reasons...
I grew up on Christian music. In fact, for most of my childhood, I was forbidden to listen to non-Christian music. When I get nostalgic for the 80's, I don't get Duran Duran stuck in my head, I get "Meltdown" stuck in my head. As you are probably aware, most of these groups are bland, boring, uninteresting and have all the innovation of a box of corn flakes. And I remember in 1987 (i was fifteen years old) picking up a copy of DA's Darn Floor - Big Bite. And I HATED IT - it was so totally not what I usually listened to. But I couldn't stop going back to it - again and again. And now I consider it one of my favorite recordings of all time.
Same happened in 1989 when a friend played me the Island album start to finish. By "What Was In That Letter," I was hooked. By "Pearls Before Swine" though, I was thinking "What is this awful trash?!" ...but I just couldn't stop listening.
It was bands like these that first taught me to listen to music with an intelligent ear. And in homage, I put this little site up on the internet.
and from the SOAPBOX section (this is the one I was talking about):
Don't mean to rant, but...
There is a little-known side to the myuzik-biz as pertains to religious music. I suspect it is due to the religious right's natural aversion to rock music amid the paranoia of McCarthyism and the Red Scare, but as Christian Rock (or more appropriately, Christian pop) become more and more popular, Christian artists still needed to segregate themselves from their secular counterparts to be accepted by the religious community. ...which is why there are Christian record companies and (peculiarly) why a Christian album will have a separate company that distributes it to the secular market.
Christianity is an unusual religion. `Course every religion is unique, really. But with Christianity in this enlightened age, the non-believers are no longer persecuted for heresy. Instead, they are relentlessly pursued by the devout out of fear of their damnation. A true Believer is in a unique position because according to their faith, everyone they meet is in Very Grave Eternal Danger. Immense pressure, really, on the devout. Hence the fanatical urgency of Christian evangelism - the need is so desparate.
Your average Christian musical artist tends not to be encouraged by the audience - or more significantly, the market - to create good music to create good music. Their efforts all must stem back to dispersing a message. There is no greater cause than to rescue the lost. Anything short of that is (at its most noble) wasting valuable time or (at its most pagan) guilty of pride - which is Mortal Sin #1 by the old catechism.
So which is better for Spreading The Gospel? To mass produce watered-down artless music that nobody likes? Or to finely craft a body of music that leaves "finding Jesus" to the listener through artful description of Christian themes?
I will take the 5th on this one and simply contend that they both suck. And I will go further to say that music made for the purpose of evangelism will always suck. I can't speak for Spreading The Gospel, but people listen to music because they like listening to music. Not because they feel like they need saving. Most of the people who listen to Christian Music are Christians, Christian artists are literally preaching to the choir - they tend more to be Christian cheerleaders.
There are other Christian artists out there and we don't know they're Christians. And that's cool. Because it shouldn't matter. Christian artists shouldn't try to separate themselves from non-Christian artists. In fact, as far as art and Christianity go - the responsibility is invariably on the viewer. Back when I called myself a Christian, such "heretical" works as XTC's "Dear God" and Scorcese's film The Last Temptation of Christ reinforced my Christian faith - because I participated in them as a Christian Viewer - irrespective of the faith of the artist.
not to say that exhortative "for the Church" works are bad or artless. there are tons of non-Christian hard-core fans of traditional shoutin' black gospel for example. but the aim of traditional shoutin' black gospel is not evangelism, now is it?
I crave a time that the Christian church starts to see itself, not as God's chosen, nor the sole bearer of truth, nor again the light of the world, but as adherents to the ever-evolving Christian religious thought. They need to shake this "need for salvation" business. Christianity needs a good, solid dose of intellectualism if it is going to make it to the future with any kind of class. They need to read their Bible as a piece of literature and not as a collection of edicts. The Christian faith needs intellectual leadership that pursues cohesiveness with other faiths and rejects fundamentalism.
It cannot survive on its present course. The Church needs another revolution.
Mark W. B. Allender
07.09.03
NOW, what I find interesting is how he says that "Christian" artists shouldn't try to separate themselves, all the while making the distinction throughout his website between the two. And apparently, he hasn't caught wind of the likes of The Fire Theft, POD, Switchfoot, Sixpence, and countless others, who ARE Christians, and yet, don't preach it from the stage, or wear it on their sleeve.
|
|
|
02-04-2005 11:00 |
|
|
Marti
Radioactive Crow
Registration Date: 06-01-2004
Posts: 10,098
Favorite 77s album: Drowning with Land in Sight
|
|
Thank you for the cut-n-paste, sir.
I think that there is a reason for people to create whatever style of music that comes from within them, because not all of us can draw a whole lot from the proper Adult Contemporary CCM arena.
__________________
“This Jesus that the Christians speak of, he sounds like a good man. Why don’t they follow his teachings?” - Crazy Horse
|
|
|
02-04-2005 14:08 |
|
|
BigDork
Happy Roy
Registration Date: 05-28-2004
Posts: 6,116
Location: lI was lonely and hungry, but not so lonely I wouldn't eat
|
|
"When I get nostalgic for the 80's, I don't get Duran Duran stuck in my head, I get "Meltdown" stuck in my head."
heh heh
__________________
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” - G. K. Chesterton
|
|
|
02-04-2005 20:57 |
|
|
dennis
Happy Roy
Registration Date: 10-03-2004
Posts: 5,985
Favorite 77s album: "88"
Location: Way out on the outskirts of town.
|
|
| quote: |
Originally posted by BigDork
"When I get nostalgic for the 80's, I don't get Duran Duran stuck in my head, I get "Meltdown" stuck in my head."
heh heh
|
That seems to be some kind of curse either way!
I was driving by the Xcell Energy Center yesterday for work and I saw on the big mega-screen they showed what I thought was an ad for Rod Stewart in concert at the Xcell. They had Rod and his leather face and fake blond hair jumping around and singing "old guy style."
and then it turns out to be...
Duran Duran!!
|
|
|
02-05-2005 05:41 |
|
|
sirjakeyjake
Praying Naked
Registration Date: 07-29-2004
Posts: 554
Favorite 77s album: S&S
Location: WEST COAST, BABY!
|
|
I love this line: "They need to shake this "need for salvation" business." Seems to me that's like saying I need to shake my dependence on gravity and so here I go a-jumpin' off of this building...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
\./
-------------------
SPLAT
Ok, time for bed...
__________________
=jb=
"We are the music makers,
and we are the dreamers of dreams."
----------Willy Wonka----------
|
|
|
02-07-2005 00:54 |
|
|
carl
Flower in the Sand
Registration Date: 06-02-2004
Posts: 1,884
Favorite 77s album: The Funky Crow Thang
Location: Loveland, CO.... "I told my mother when I was four years old I wanted to be a Rock and Roll singer and a dishwasher. And that's kinda how it's worked out."
|
|
Yeah, that particular line rubbed me the wrong way too. Kinda like saying "Those Christians need to stop paying so much attention to what the Bible says."
__________________
(this is my official work photo, BTW...
)
|
|
|
02-07-2005 05:47 |
|
|
Marti
Radioactive Crow
Registration Date: 06-01-2004
Posts: 10,098
Favorite 77s album: Drowning with Land in Sight
|
|
| quote: |
Originally posted by sirjakeyjake
I love this line: "They need to shake this "need for salvation" business." Seems to me that's like saying I need to shake my dependence on gravity and so here I go a-jumpin' off of this building...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
\./
-------------------
SPLAT
Ok, time for bed... |
The analogy certainly does bring out the need to maintain the ability to think independently. There are no end of persons ready to tell you how to think in the same breath that they're cautioning you against letting anyone tell you how to think.
__________________
“This Jesus that the Christians speak of, he sounds like a good man. Why don’t they follow his teachings?” - Crazy Horse
|
|
|
02-07-2005 10:06 |
|
|
sirjakeyjake
Praying Naked
Registration Date: 07-29-2004
Posts: 554
Favorite 77s album: S&S
Location: WEST COAST, BABY!
|
|
Exactly. At least, I think that's what I was thinking when I wrote that...
When someone goes beyond mere opinionated speculation, like the fellow sounds in the way he wrote it (as though with some authoritative stance on all of Christianity, not merely his perspective influenced by his own experience in a very narrowed part of Christianity, I think), then there's trouble.
"Anger leads to hate; hate leads to fear; fear leads to the Dark Side." (Man, I hope I quoted that right.)
__________________
=jb=
"We are the music makers,
and we are the dreamers of dreams."
----------Willy Wonka----------
|
|
|
02-08-2005 14:29 |
|
|
sirjakeyjake
Praying Naked
Registration Date: 07-29-2004
Posts: 554
Favorite 77s album: S&S
Location: WEST COAST, BABY!
|
|
|
|
02-08-2005 14:32 |
|
|
Audiori J
unregistered
|
|
| quote: |
Originally posted by TJ 2.0
cut and paste from the site:
tangentæ
I crave a time that the Christian church starts to see itself,
not as God's chosen, nor the sole bearer of truth, nor again
the light of the world, but as adherents to the ever-evolving
Christian religious thought. They need to shake this "need
for salvation" business. Christianity needs a good, solid dose
of intellectualism if it is going to make it to the future with
any kind of class. They need to read their Bible as a piece
of literature and not as a collection of edicts. The Christian
faith needs intellectual leadership that pursues cohesiveness
with other faiths and rejects fundamentalism.
It cannot survive on its present course. The Church needs
another revolution.
|
This guy while on one hand makes some logical arguments
about what Christian music is or should be. Bases all his thought
on a HUGE misconception of what Christianity is. He seems
to think its better to get along with others than to share the
Gospel. That we are not called to be the salt of the earth, the
light of the world, the bringer of the "Good News."
|
|
|
02-09-2005 11:59 |
|
|
jopawil
Someone New
Registration Date: 01-05-2005
Posts: 9
Location: iowa
|
|
| tolerance is the new intolerance |
     |
| quote: |
Originally posted by TJ 2.0
cut and paste from the site:
tangentæ
I crave a time that the Christian church starts to see itself,
not as God's chosen, nor the sole bearer of truth, nor again
the light of the world, but as adherents to the ever-evolving
Christian religious thought. They need to shake this "need
for salvation" business. Christianity needs a good, solid dose
of intellectualism if it is going to make it to the future with
any kind of class. They need to read their Bible as a piece
of literature and not as a collection of edicts. The Christian
faith needs intellectual leadership that pursues cohesiveness
with other faiths and rejects fundamentalism.
It cannot survive on its present course. The Church needs
another revolution.
|
If this guy were such an intelectual, he would realize that a truely open minded person would never tell someone else they were close minded. He says we need to shake the "need for salvation", yet his entire rant is an edict telling us how we need to be saved according to his take on the world. Everyone who argues in such a manner is in essence trying to "proselytize" others to their viewpoint. He's just as much a "fundamentalist" as anyone else.
__________________
Zaphod's just zis guy, you know?
-Gag Halfrunt
|
|
|
02-10-2005 10:10 |
|
|
Marti
Radioactive Crow
Registration Date: 06-01-2004
Posts: 10,098
Favorite 77s album: Drowning with Land in Sight
|
|
| RE: tolerance is the new intolerance |
|
| quote: |
Originally posted by jopawil
| quote: |
Originally posted by TJ 2.0
cut and paste from the site:
tangentæ
I crave a time that the Christian church starts to see itself,
not as God's chosen, nor the sole bearer of truth, nor again
the light of the world, but as adherents to the ever-evolving
Christian religious thought. They need to shake this "need
for salvation" business. Christianity needs a good, solid dose
of intellectualism if it is going to make it to the future with
any kind of class. They need to read their Bible as a piece
of literature and not as a collection of edicts. The Christian
faith needs intellectual leadership that pursues cohesiveness
with other faiths and rejects fundamentalism.
It cannot survive on its present course. The Church needs
another revolution.
|
If this guy were such an intelectual, he would realize that a truely open minded person would never tell someone else they were close minded. He says we need to shake the "need for salvation", yet his entire rant is an edict telling us how we need to be saved according to his take on the world. Everyone who argues in such a manner is in essence trying to "proselytize" others to their viewpoint. He's just as much a "fundamentalist" as anyone else. |
This is the contradiction that kept me from being seduced by such rhetoric when I was young. Denouncing supposed disrepect in a highly disrespectful manner is an endorsement of the thing being criticized.
__________________
“This Jesus that the Christians speak of, he sounds like a good man. Why don’t they follow his teachings?” - Crazy Horse
|
|
|
02-10-2005 10:42 |
|
|
.evangeline.
Radioactive Hatchling
Registration Date: 06-05-2004
Posts: 8,128
|
|
"it cannot survive"
It is the only thing that will survive, dude.
__________________
"...the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force."
|
|
|
02-10-2005 10:45 |
|
|
|
77s site
