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Posts in this Thread Author Date
 Roseville Show dpdpdp 09-29-2006 14:05
 RE: Roseville Show deanthefoolish 09-29-2006 22:22
 RE: Roseville Show Audiori J 09-29-2006 14:28
 expectations dpdpdp 09-29-2006 14:38
 RE: Roseville Show Audiori J 09-29-2006 14:50
 V dpdpdp 09-29-2006 15:16
 RE: Roseville Show Provision National 09-29-2006 20:58
 Ok, here it goes... MarkyMark77 09-29-2006 21:25
 RE: Ok, here it goes... MarkyMark77 09-29-2006 21:31
 RE: Ok, here it goes... dpdpdp 09-30-2006 00:01
 Roseville Show dpdpdp 09-29-2006 23:12
 RE: Roseville Show deanthefoolish 09-30-2006 03:41
 RE: Roseville Show larryl 09-30-2006 09:43
 RE: Roseville Show jeffrey k. 09-30-2006 09:44
 RE: Roseville Show larryl 09-30-2006 09:48
 RE: Roseville Show BigDork 09-30-2006 11:00
 RE: Roseville Show jeffrey k. 09-30-2006 12:10
 Thanks to BigDork dpdpdp 09-30-2006 15:45
 RE: Thanks to BigDork audiori 09-30-2006 17:26
 RE: Thanks to BigDork deanthefoolish 10-01-2006 00:24
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dpdpdp
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Roseville Show Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by dpdpdp: 10-11-2006 12:35.

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deanthefoolish
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RE: Roseville Show Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

I was at the Roseville show last night and brought a friend who is only vaguely familiar with the Dogs due to me (I gave him an old cassette I had). He had a great time and thought of it as one of the best live music experiences he has ever had. Plus, this guy is not even closely involved in any Christian ghetto. He enjoyed the banter, and he was impressed with the overall package. I felt the same way. The Dog's were on top of their game if you ask me. Great set! It covered a lot of ground. Plus, the way they pulled off tunes like "Eleanor It's Raining Now" just blew me away.

I really don't know what you were expecting. It's like we were at two completely different concerts. Plus, I don't see why all of the criticism towards the venue. Are you upset that the pastor said a little about what normally goes on at the Underground? Was he and everyone there supposed to engage each attendee as if they ran into long lost friends? You tell me. As far as the venue being far from reaching out to those who they claim to reach out to. . . you frankly don't have any idea what goes on during any other day of the week at that "church." I don't either. It was the first time I had attended a show there. Frankly, because it's the first time they booked an act I was interrested in. Of course the people attending a Dogs show are going to probably be in their 40's and already fans. You're not going to get the youth to attend a show put on by guys that are as old as their parents. Come on! No wonder your son said it "sucked."

Plus, the opening acts weren't great, but leave them alone. The first kid got up in front of everyone and tried his best and was obviously nervous. Look, he's just learning to develop his craft and his songs are probably covering topics that he considers to be very personal. Have you ever attempted to do something like that? Leave him alone.

I have to reiterate that I thought the show was one of the best I have ever seen! To see artists like the Dogs with such experience and talent in such a small venue is just a blessing to me. For the Dogs, the songs are what it's about, not guitar solos. Plus, I got to volunteer and help sell merchandise. I had a great time, got to talk to a lot of fans, but didn't begrudge anyone if they didn't respond to me when they were checking out the CD's. But, I probably offended you too.

Dean

PS. It was also great to meet the guys briefly and share some memories with Derri about the Mark Heard memorial concert in Fullerton, CA I saw them play at back around '92. I think that's a run on sentence. I also had a chance to tell Terri how much I love Avocado Faultline. I grew up in Southern Cal and love the stories those songs tell. When I told Terri that, you tell he was very appreciative of the sentiment. He almost seemed surprised. He shouldn't be.
09-29-2006 22:22 deanthefoolish is offline Send an Email to deanthefoolish Search for Posts by deanthefoolish Add deanthefoolish to your Buddy List
Audiori J
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Hello Darin, still in Texas? Sorry you had a bad time, what exactly do you expect from a Lost Dogs show?
09-29-2006 14:28
dpdpdp
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expectations Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

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Audiori J
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I am one of the friendly neighborhood moderators, and you tell all about yourself on your site. Big Grin

My point is, the Lost Dogs are what they are. You get Mike Roe, Terry Taylor, Derri Daugherty and Steve Hindalong in a very intimate setting. Sure its usually rough around the edges, sure the other fans and venues may not be the best and most friendly. But if you go to the show to see the guys perform some of the songs they have written, usually about themselves and their spiritual journeys thats what you get. The banter is just them being silly, the message comes from the heart. Its exactly why they are still out there doing what they do.

The Dogs shows are generally meant to be more personal times with the guys and the fans. As opposed to a 77s, Choir or DA show. Its supposed to be them as they are, as if they were playing the songs in your living room or a barn (and sometimes they are), a more earthy less polished show. The musicianship, the songs, the message and the heart is the focus, not the surroundings.

Did you like the new songs?
09-29-2006 14:50
dpdpdp
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Provision National
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through the grapevine, other fans said the roseville show was "incredible".

and that venue does tons of concerts that have no affiliation with the christian music world and have sold out several concerts that are no affiliated with christian music. so, i would encourage you to remember that your experience was only one evening - not repeated experiences. the underground has done some great things.

as for the pastor, he is one of the less preachy "throw it in your face nonstop" guys out there. so what if he invited you to church? last time i checked, that is a courtesy extended by christians to fellow believers and non-believers alike. strange thing to get offended over if you ask me.

sorry you were so disappointed. i hope perhaps in the future the dogs will put on a performance that will move you deeply as they once did. it's okay that it didn't. music is subjective, but as someone who directly takes the pulse of fans and promoters, this tour has been getting great reviews.

again, i am sorry it bummed you out. we hate to hear that. it's a bummer for us to hear it.

- pnb

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http://www.provisionnational.com

Experience the music.
09-29-2006 20:58 Provision National is offline Send an Email to Provision National Homepage of Provision National Search for Posts by Provision National Add Provision National to your Buddy List
MarkyMark77 MarkyMark77 is a male
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Ok, here it goes... Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

"has to be addressed..."
Please...
According to your original post, it seems that you've never seen the Lost Dogs live, just the 77's. This would explain why it was very different. It's an entirely different band. Just because you didn't have a great time doesn't mean that anything needs to be addressed. And I don't think any Pastor should have to apologize for giving a crap about the spiritual lives of people. Just like PN said, since when is that a bad thing? So he didn't do it the way you would do it. Maybe he didn't even do it well. But, understand that many Christians miss the concept of grace totally. This is not an excuse for bad art or bad ministry. It is, however, the expected reaction to people around us.

I'm sorry that this wasn't exactly the way you thought it should be. But I'm sure that most people here just really don't care. Many of the LD fans have more invested in this band than just seeing a show here or there. There is a community here. It's a little hard to break into, but who said that you get a free pass to enter? No one has to talk to you at a show. It's not your right. And I've met some really great people at shows. You seem to have a visceral dislike for anything you came into contact with that night. I think this goes beyond the band, and has more to do with your attitudes toward the church and its self-percieved trendiness or lack thereof.

BTW, I, too, have been disappointed with the lack of Mike's guitar work, too. But I understand that this band is not the 77's. And I do think that this music is better than the usual "Christian-ghetto" CCM nonsense. Far better. That term comes from Bob Briner's book "Roaring Lambs" and Bob made the point that the art should be good. Since art is subjective, please don't push your tastes on us like its the Gospel. You don't like the Lost Dogs, that's fine. It's not everyone's thing. But take it easy on people.

Romans 12:3 "Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you."

__________________
77's - 9/13/96, 9/17/96, 10/29/99; LOST DOGS - ?/?/1994?, 2/10/96, 5/24/96, 7/5/05, 6/29/07; MIKE ROE - 3/14/02, 6/29/07; MIKE ROE/MARK HARMON - 11/20/04 MIKE ROE/TERRY TAYLOR - 8/19/03; MIKE ROE/MIKE PRITZL - 11/18/05, 11/14/06, 6/29/07
09-29-2006 21:25 MarkyMark77 is offline Send an Email to MarkyMark77 Homepage of MarkyMark77 Search for Posts by MarkyMark77 Add MarkyMark77 to your Buddy List
MarkyMark77 MarkyMark77 is a male
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RE: Ok, here it goes... Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

Also, there are a lot of us pastors out here who really care about people, have trained for years to become pastors, and agonize, stress and pray over how we do our ministry. While there are some who are clueless, most of us probably don't appreciate someone refering to us in quotes. We work hard and, with a lot of God's grace, try to do what God wants us to do.

__________________
77's - 9/13/96, 9/17/96, 10/29/99; LOST DOGS - ?/?/1994?, 2/10/96, 5/24/96, 7/5/05, 6/29/07; MIKE ROE - 3/14/02, 6/29/07; MIKE ROE/MARK HARMON - 11/20/04 MIKE ROE/TERRY TAYLOR - 8/19/03; MIKE ROE/MIKE PRITZL - 11/18/05, 11/14/06, 6/29/07
09-29-2006 21:31 MarkyMark77 is offline Send an Email to MarkyMark77 Homepage of MarkyMark77 Search for Posts by MarkyMark77 Add MarkyMark77 to your Buddy List
dpdpdp
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dpdpdp
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[quote]Originally posted by dpdpdp
Yeah, you are right, I only have my one night experience with the Underground. I will take that under consideration.

I want to keep things separated here. Dog's show and the venue. Two issues.

Dog's show:
Please invite them to post so I can see another perspective. Perhaps I missed something.

Dean responds:

I did. See my response. I think you obviously missed something and are upset at the drive and the amount of money spent, I guess.

dp wrote:

If any artist values the talents God has given them then why not invest them wisely in creating works that will last and stand up to public scruteny rather than burry them six feet under church-pop-culture mediocrity.

Dean responds:

So, what the Dogs are doing is taking the easy road and preaching to the converted? What? Those of us at the show don't count as the public? You have no idea of the true makeup of the audience. I already mentioned that I brought someone outside the church who loved the show and told me today it was one of the best live music experiences he has ever had. Maybe the Dogs' music does stand up. I think it does!

Frankly, as a Christian, I need artists like the Dogs to write and record songs that speak to me the way they do. Please describe what would have been the perfect show for you? Then maybe I can understand what you are talking about.

dp wrote:

the venue issues:
Speaking as an outsider, perhaps devil's advocate, I thought the 'pastor" was taking advantage of the performance to bulk up his church attendance. If you want souls in pews go get them by building relationships. I want to know you give a sh*t before I am going to walk in your door, my friend. Obviously you don't. Advertising a concert, charging a fee to hear good music, and then using the concert as a tool for marketing a church is disingenuous, no mater how mellow the pitch might be. It is still a pitch, right along with high priced coffee, CDs, etc. God or mammon, not both.

dean responds:

What are you talking about?! You talk like you were swindled into going to the show. Can't you just be appreciative that the Underground took the chance to book the show and bring the Dogs to play for fans who don't get a chance to see them that often? Why wouldn't the place booking the show be allowed to state a bit about what they do. They obviously weren't expecting any Dogs fans to come to that church. That's not their focus. That's not their purpose.

I'm sorry that you didn't like the price of the coffee or the CD's, but here's a reality check. Even churches need funding. I bet the Underground maybe broke even if they were lucky.

And, since I took care of all CD sales, I can tell you that all of the funds went straight to the band. Maybe they'll actually be able to pay for the manufacturing of past and present projects. If the prices are too high, don't buy.

dp wrote:

Gathering together for the mutual enjoyment of the art of music or advertising another product for consumption and filling a seat in the church-machine - what are we doing here? His "come to church" advert would not have bothered me at all if I felt this invite was based upon genuine caring, as a friend would do.

dean responds (remember, I have no affiliation with the Underground):

You don't get it. The Underground wasn't trying to get you to come to their church. The event was to give the Dogs a place to play, and a place for fans to come enjoy the event.

dp wrote:

Friends don't ask me to parties (or church) with a microphone and a PA. In an effort to be cool we have allowed church and business (running a club and cafe) to blend into a dangerous blend of mixed money-with-shot-of-Messiah messages. Am I a customer or a soul? You can't have me both ways. Jesus only got violent one time, he made a whip to deal with it, I think I am in good company on this one.

dean responds:

I guess you can't be encouraged by what the Underground is doing and leave it at that. My goodness! Let me say it again. I had a friend there who is outside the church and loved it. Yet, he saw a bit of what the church is about as well as a group performing some great songs and sharing a bit about their lives while having some fun.

dean
09-30-2006 03:41 deanthefoolish is offline Send an Email to deanthefoolish Search for Posts by deanthefoolish Add deanthefoolish to your Buddy List
larryl
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dp.....

it sounds to me like you were expecting something that the dog's have just never done. they have never tried to be a perfect concert (although it usually is, for me)...

the lost dogs are about having fun at a concert.....seeing some friends, hanging with the band, as someone else said...as if they were in your living room (which they sometimes can be)...and in the proccess, hearing some absolutely GREAT songs.

did you perhaps read other reviews of their shows here, to see what they are like? did you check out any of the video's of them on youtube?

the best comparison i can think of is, have you ever been to a songwriter showcase? that's what lost dogs shows remind me of...some really good songwriters who are also friends, just hanging out and playing their songs.

i won't touch your words on the venue....sounds like a fundamental difference in how a church should work, and you have a right to feel how you want to.

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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by larryl: 09-30-2006 11:21.

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jeffrey k. jeffrey k. is a male
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I wouldn't waste too much breath on this guy. He had a bad time....others didn't. Let him grind his axe on his wife and kid. Roll Eyes

jeffrey k.

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larryl
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffrey k.
I wouldn't waste too much breath on this guy. He had a bad time....others didn't. Let him grind his axe on his wife and kid. Roll Eyes

jeffrey k.


o don't worry...i said my piece, i am done. Big Grin

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quote:
Originally posted by jeffrey k.
I wouldn't waste too much breath on this guy. He had a bad time....others didn't. Let him grind his axe on his wife and kid. Roll Eyes

jeffrey k.



Roll Eyes

was that necessary?




everyone here get's SO offended when someone says they didn't like something... i don't understand this crap. ?????




hey dpdpdp, thanks for the review and your opinion. i've had bad experiences at concerts when others had a great time too... sorry it wasn't what you expected it to be.

i am going to the oct. 1st show... <edit> nevermind... it doesn't matter.

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jeffrey k. jeffrey k. is a male
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quote:
Originally posted by BigDork
quote:
Originally posted by jeffrey k.
I wouldn't waste too much breath on this guy. He had a bad time....others didn't. Let him grind his axe on his wife and kid. Roll Eyes

jeffrey k.



Roll Eyes

was that necessary?



Is anything on these boards necessary?

I dunno Carl...read his post....not only did he not like show, he didn't like the venue, the pastors, the prices, on and on and on. He has an axe to grind....and luck-lucky us, he decided to join the message board just to share it.

jeffrey k.

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dpdpdp
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Thread Starter Thread Started by dpdpdp
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quote:
Originally posted by dpdpdp
These songs are not good enough to get out of the Jesus-ghetto. Sam Phillips, Bono, Dylan, Cash, are all respected by my non-believing friends for their musicianship and writing. Like Max Luccado vs Flanary O'Conner, both are believers, one sucks as a writer, the other will be read 100 years from now. The LD guys can do better - that is why the show sucked.


Everyone is of course entitled to their opinion and posts on these boards should always be read as such. But, this doesn't read so much as an opinion as much as it reads as a declaration. "The LD guys can do better." Period. I think thats why some are responding negatively to your posts. The fact is most of the folks here love everything the Dogs do (or most of it) whether they're Christians or not. So, in the minds of almost everyone here, even if the Dogs top themselves with each release - they can't do a whole lot better than they already are.

It might be received better if you explain why you think the songs aren't "good enough to get out of the Jesus-ghetto?" As others have said, I know non-Christians that love the Dogs... heck, I know we have some on these boards. But what is it about their songs to you that is not good enough?


quote:

If you are a musician, play the best you can. Sell a ton of CDs..


Very rarely does talent line up with number of CDs sold. Tongue A more accurate way to say it might be "play the best you can, and maybe sell a few CDs."

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deanthefoolish
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RE: Thanks to BigDork Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

quote:
Originally posted by dpdpdp

To keep it simple:

I think the members of Lost Dogs are good musicians who can make better music if they choose to. The music was well played, there were good moments, however, the show was just so so. There was a lack of drive and power to the show. These songs are not good enough to get out of the Jesus-ghetto. Sam Phillips, Bono, Dylan, Cash, are all respected by my non-believing friends for their musicianship and writing. Like Max Luccado vs Flanary O'Conner, both are believers, one sucks as a writer, the other will be read 100 years from now. The LD guys can do better - that is why the show sucked.

dp


I don't think you can say the above artists are not in the Jesus ghetto because they write better music. None of them started out with the Christian musician identity that often keeps artists from breaking into the mainstream. Yes, there was Leslie Phillips, but then she had to completely change her name, disappear in a way and return to write songs that were nothing like her Christian music days. It also didn't hurt to have the help of T-Bone Burnett, I'm sure.

Look, I'm a music snob and if LD released crap, I wouldn't have bought anything after Scenic Routes. Yes, musical tastes vary a lot, but much of what gets attention is crap. I heard a radio talk show host put it this way:

"the famous are rarely significant, and the significant are rarely famous" - Dennis Prager

Just because LD isn't played on the radio, doesn't mean they don't write great tunes. Most of what hits the airwaves doesn't touch me in any way because those bands don't write about topics that mean anything to me. I may like the groove now and then and sing along, but LD touches my soul. Plus, I'm only getting older and the mainstream market values youth. Not the developing of one's craft over time. I think LD has gotten better with age, and I'm thankful they keep at it. I love the quirky stories, the songs about brokenness, the songs about hope, the songs about faith, the songs about Jesus.

But, you seem to think if LD just tried harder they could write better tunes. Yeah, I guess they sit around saying, "Man, that song sucks, but I really don't care. Let's record it anyway. We have more money than we know what to do with anyway, so let's waste it on another terrible recording." What?!!!!!!!! If you look back at their individual musical output alone with their original bands and solo, you have to give them more credit than that.

Just state you don't like what they're doing these days and go back to listening to the Ramones. Now, there's inspired song writing.

dean
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