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Go to the bottom of this page What's your favorite new song?
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audiori
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RE: That's Where Jesus Is Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

quote:
Originally posted by MarkyMark77
I guess I got the kind of feeling that many Christians have about rich people; that namely they are unsavable. But Jesus died for those selfish decisions that those rich people make..


I think it's important to remember that the song is not saying any particular thing listed is necessarily bad...these things are just not Jesus' focus. If everything listed was an evil thing, then we would have to assume that - according to the song - Jesus wouldn't want us saving trees or killing them. By focusing on the things listed, it's sort of falling into the same trap that the song is targetting.

For example, it's not saying that oil deals on golf courses are necessarily evil... just that Jesus doesn't care about them and it shouldn't (as Christians) be our focus. Jesus doesn't work through our politics, wealth, education or status. He's not going to waste His time worrying about those oil deals, global warming, campaigning for politicians, lobbying congress or supporting special interest groups. Those things hinder His work more than they help it. He works through us, in spite of those things.

Then, pointing out that he's with the poor, the children with AIDs, etc just emphasizes how different our focus usually is from what it should be.

To me, thats the point of the song.

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mo_jojo mo_jojo is a male
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Very good points made, as always, Audiori. Thanks. I'm so glad that you responded with insight rather than rebuke. I so badly want to hear this song the way you have spoken, and your words have helped me out a great deal.

I get hung up on the technicalities often, and the fact that they sing that Jesus is here but not there messed me up. And like Marky stated that the lyrics tend to mean what they say...I think you can see how I got tripped up on the lyrics, and I'm so glad that it now appears I'm not the only one who had questions.

And now that our beloved song has made the point, I wonder how much do we actually assist and/or visit with the sick, the imprisoned, the often-abandoned-by-their-loved-ones elderly, the addicted, the fatherless, the weak, the single parent, the disabled, etc. I admit that the most I do is donate my excess goods and occasionally money to those good causes/ministries. I haven't managed my time to have enough left over for my family sometimes, much less to go do the Lord's bidding. It's my desire to do so, but I have to put my faith to action, I suppose. Has anyone else evaluated themselves in this area since hearing this song? I challenge everyone here (especially me) to do one thing listed in the song. Just one. And someday we'll see what God has done through our obedience to his calling.

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quote:
Originally posted by mo_jojo
And now that our beloved song has made the point, I wonder how much do we actually assist and/or visit with the sick, the imprisoned, the often-abandoned-by-their-loved-ones elderly, the addicted, the fatherless, the weak, the single parent, the disabled, etc. I admit that the most I do is donate my excess goods and occasionally money to those good causes/ministries. I haven't managed my time to have enough left over for my family sometimes, much less to go do the Lord's bidding. It's my desire to do so, but I have to put my faith to action, I suppose. Has anyone else evaluated themselves in this area since hearing this song? I challenge everyone here (especially me) to do one thing listed in the song. Just one. And someday we'll see what God has done through our obedience to his calling.


Quite frankly, I'm constantly evaluating myself (songs like these help!) in these areas and usually concluding that I fall far short. Part of the problem is what you mention - family (four young kids) and time management. And yet those sorts of things are exactly what we need to be modeling to our kids. Part of our prayers with the kids at night is that God open our eyes up to those opportunities to serve others. And they occasionally do come up... but if I were to be completely honest, we need to look harder.

Frown

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Audiori J
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Exactly. I would say most Christians would find themselves in that position, that they really don't do enough.
07-28-2006 12:59
MarkyMark77 MarkyMark77 is a male
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>>>>For example, it's not saying that oil deals on golf courses are necessarily evil... just that Jesus doesn't care about them and it shouldn't (as Christians) be our focus.

I think that He does care about them, but I don't think that He's cheering you on to win. The whole point of the song is that he doesn't automatically share your view just because it's your view, and that there are more important things to be focused on. But I think He does care about those deals, not because He wants someone to be more wealthy, but because life is so interconnected. People are affected by those deals. Those people making the deals may never know Him. Maybe your point is that He doesn't really care if you get your way. That's something I can get behind.

My point was that the song just doesn't quite express it as effectively as I would hope. And for me to be critical of anything these guys do feels strange, because I don't think I've ever done it before.

>>>>He's not going to waste His time worrying about those oil deals, global warming, campaigning for politicians, lobbying congress or supporting special interest groups.

Yes. This is true. But He is concerned about the people involved in all of those things.

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audiori
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkyMark77
Maybe your point is that He doesn't really care if you get your way. That's something I can get behind.

Yes. This is true. But He is concerned about the people involved in all of those things.


Right, at least in some cases, He cares about the effect but not the cause.

But theres still a difference between what man sees as a bad outcome and what God would see as a bad outcome. I mean, the millionare might be crushed financially if a business deal falls through but I doubt God would shed any tears for something as unimportant as that... maybe He even wanted that to happen in that person's life to remove their other "god." It's all reflective of man's focus vs. God's.

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quote:
Originally posted by mo_jojo
And now that our beloved song has made the point, I wonder how much do we actually assist and/or visit with the sick, the imprisoned, the often-abandoned-by-their-loved-ones elderly, the addicted, the fatherless, the weak, the single parent, the disabled, etc.

I think the song makes more people agree to its lyrics and proud that they never liked golf players, TV preachers, people in five- star restaurants and CCM than it actually makes people do something good to the miserable ones listed above. Its always easier to agree with something than to do something.

These days I'm trying to befriend a methadon, cocaine and alcohol addict to show him a little bit of God's love. We want him to join a detox therapy before it's too late. Two hours ago I prayed and cried with a man dying of cancer. With me was a homeless man who lives with a friend from our church for a few weeks - then he will have to sleep in our church for the next nights until we manage to find a room for him. Look out for people in need and try to serve at least one of them every week. If you don't know how, go and ask your pastor. We got to get going, not to talk about going.

Alex

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Audiori J
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It doesnt say anything about disliking those things.

Before a person can "get going" on God's work, they have to realize the junk they are focused on isn't "God's work". I think this song makes the point that all the junk we put so much importance on, is not important to Christ. The work he wants us focused on is exactly what we are lacking in, while we are focused on this other junk.

When you stand before God, he's not going to ask who you voted for or what you thought of an oil deal or whatever. He wants to know if you did His will on earth. We better be clear about what His will on earth is.
07-30-2006 09:57
Marti
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I think that's just light one candle rather than cursing the darkness logic.

I need to go look up these lyrics and see what all of the discussion is about.
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Marti
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Having read it.... Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

I'd say it sounds like Terry being Terry. I did some hair-splitting elsewhere on how I treat some of the subjects that he covers, but that's the bottom line. I'm sure God's priority list doesn't match society's on many subjects.
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MarkyMark77 MarkyMark77 is a male
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>>>>>Right, at least in some cases, He cares about the effect but not the cause.

>>>>>But theres still a difference between what man sees as a bad outcome and what God would see as a bad outcome. I mean, the millionare might be crushed financially if a business deal falls through but I doubt God would shed any tears for something as unimportant as that... maybe He even wanted that to happen in that person's life to remove their other "god." It's all reflective of man's focus vs. God's.

I think that God cares about the person, much less about things that happen. Because if Paul could learn the secret to being content in all circumstances, then obviously circumstance is not that important. And I do see where Terry's list of where Jesus isn't seems to be situational more than personal. On that level, I can appreciate the song, because the places where Jesus is (in the song) are more personal and less situational.

Maybe on that level I can come to appreciate the song, perhaps, even in time, dare I say, love the song?

We each should write a stanza of this song where we list the things that we personally think he should care about, but He really doesn't. For example, I'm very concerned about selling my house. He's not nearly as concerned about this as I am. I'm sure of it. Does this rambling make any sense?

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07-30-2006 21:05 MarkyMark77 is offline Send an Email to MarkyMark77 Homepage of MarkyMark77 Search for Posts by MarkyMark77 Add MarkyMark77 to your Buddy List
audiori
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Sure, makes sense to me.

I think our view of this song is colored a bit by the few political conversations we've had with Terry in the past. It very much feels like a continuation those conversations and a reflection of the overall views discussed.

Mankind tends to get all worked up over some issue - in some cases, even attaching a spiritual connection to it in our minds, when in reality, it has nothing to do with God at all. The stock market, where to go to school, what to do for a living, taxes, global warming, who gets elected to the supreme court or who doesn't, oil companies, local elections, Presidential elections, how someone treated us, our "rights" and "freedoms," the rainforest, etc, etc. They're not what Jesus spent his time on and they're not the vessels He chose to get anything done.

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07-31-2006 01:00 audiori is offline Send an Email to audiori Search for Posts by audiori Add audiori to your Buddy List
Audiori J
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We are the vessels He chose to get things done. Being clear on what it is He wants done and how is thing.
07-31-2006 10:32
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Ultimately, I think that Jesus wants us to be yielded to him, not hung up on political agendas. He wants our hearts to be pure and dong His work on earth ~ reaching out to the lost,the disenfranchised, those who are in need. It seems that must be the message of That's Where Jesus Is.

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08-01-2006 22:46 bereal is offline Send an Email to bereal Homepage of bereal Search for Posts by bereal Add bereal to your Buddy List
wild4jesus567 wild4jesus567 is a female
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RE: That's Where Jesus Is Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

quote:
Originally posted by audiori

I think it's important to remember that the song is not saying any particular thing listed is necessarily bad...these things are just not Jesus' focus. If everything listed was an evil thing, then we would have to assume that - according to the song - Jesus wouldn't want us saving trees or killing them. By focusing on the things listed, it's sort of falling into the same trap that the song is targetting.

For example, it's not saying that oil deals on golf courses are necessarily evil... just that Jesus doesn't care about them and it shouldn't (as Christians) be our focus. Jesus doesn't work through our politics, wealth, education or status. He's not going to waste His time worrying about those oil deals, global warming, campaigning for politicians, lobbying congress or supporting special interest groups. Those things hinder His work more than they help it. He works through us, in spite of those things.

Then, pointing out that he's with the poor, the children with AIDs, etc just emphasizes how different our focus usually is from what it should be.

To me, thats the point of the song.


I agree.

"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

I think the song is saying that Jesus is with the least of these.

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08-11-2006 09:03 wild4jesus567 is offline Send an Email to wild4jesus567 Search for Posts by wild4jesus567 Add wild4jesus567 to your Buddy List
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Exactly, and hello new person.
08-11-2006 11:16
lobo1023 lobo1023 is a male
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Where Jesus Is Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

I'm actually surprised at the "controversy" over this song. Where have some of you been? Terry Taylor, in all his forms, has always railed against injustice and foolishness in all of American Christian culture (including our "Christian" political landscape). Take another listen to "Bush League", "Red, White & Blue", and "Love Take Over the World". We just have to remember that just because we don't like the criticism doesn't mean it isn't true. It's the exposing of my hypocrisy that I have always appreciated about Terry's writing. Being unafraid to have an opinion different than the one held by the conservative side of evangelicalism is one of the things that has endeared this team of musicians to so many of us. Through their history, they've never gotten the support of CCM (or the church) because they wouldn't fit that concervative mold. On a personal note, being the same age as these guys, I too often feel the same frustrations with myself and other believers that we are still so far from "where Jesus is". It's been 2000 years for goodness sake! How many times do we have to hear the same message before we get it? We all long for a closer relationship with Christ. Maybe like the song says, if we frequented those places mentioned (like prisons, hospitals and homeless shelters) we might see more of Him. I know He's everywhere we go but maybe He likes to talk while He works. Even in church, the pastor's doing most of the talking.

Bush League
I don't know what I think about it
But I know what I think of you
Well I know I can live without it
And I know what I want to do

I'll pack you a lunch, clear your desk
It's going to be hell to clean your mess
All I know is that you gotta go

I don't know what I think about it
But your bush league days are through
Will you give me a job I doubt it
Here's a bird in the hand for you

Next time you start a storm
You better get you a mess kit, canteen and uniform
Cause we feel like livin' so you've got to go

Your points of light are almost gone
So here's your yellow ribbon-burning song

For Millie and Danny and Saddam and nanny
Babs and Ronnie and Clyde and Bonnie
Clarence and Ollie and the Beave and Wally
And Maggie and Gorby and the new world ordey

Red, White & Blue
Well, the worst that I could get there
Was the lead in my gut
But the worst that you can give me
Is this lead in my cup
I might be all washed up
But I'm a pretty good man
Sure, I'm hard as a nail
But I will sell you the blood on my hands

I'm looking at you
(Tell me what do you see)
I'm looking at you
(And I won't go away)
In the light of the star spangled evening
In the name of the red white and blue

My Daddy said "A man has
Got to fight to be free"
Tucked his slogans in the bed
There with my brothers and me
He'd be prouder now
If I had never come home
I wear the shoes and the clothes
And the crown of the soldier unknown

I'm looking at you. . .

You say give me a break
I say show me you're broken
My lame and legless comrades have spoken
Say jump in a lake
I say you got to be jokin'
Where I come from the lake is smokin'

I will labor for your wages
For the cash of the realm
I will tell you all my stories
You can write em down
But you can save your tears
For the names on the wall
I'm a living reminder that
Pride comes before a fall

I'm looking at you. . .

Love Take Over the World
You'll find him lying on a bed of nails and broken glass
Covered by the blood dimmed sheet of dust and ash
He fell the day before they stopped the war
Surrounded by the blood and gore
"Lies an unknown soldier dead before
Love took over the world"

She was caught out in a fierce downpour of acid rain
Unaware of all the hair and flesh that
Clogged the drain
It's sad to say that she's another one
Now who's bones are bleaching in the sun
If she'd only found cover
She'd have seen love take over the world

Baby I will be your priest
If you will be my bride
Let's be friends
Let's be lovers
Till love take over the world

All the dreamers of the golden dream will rise again
Closed their ranks around a faded world without end
Now beautiful and botched they stand
With a bouquet and a gun in hand
They'll serve the new world order until
Love take over the world

You'll find me lying on a bed of nails and broken glass
Covered by a blood-dimmed sheet of dust and ash
I fell the day before they stopped the war
Surrounded by the blood and gore
I'm the unknown soldier dead before
Love took over the world

Burn it Up
Brave men and women go to war
I question what they're dying for
God grant us clarity
And strength to persevere
08-11-2006 11:52 lobo1023 is offline Send an Email to lobo1023 Search for Posts by lobo1023 Add lobo1023 to your Buddy List
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Lobo has a point but... Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

OK, so it's fair to say that Jesus was anti-war...I think Terry writes songs from a very Christian perspective. When I say VERY I mean that I'm pretty sure we Christians in the U.S. and other rich countries are not living the Christian exsistance the way Jesus showed us it should be lived. Here it is y'all...

If one of you has a big house, nice car, 60" flat screen...OR crappy house, 15 year old car, 13" black and white TV and someone comes in to your house and tries to take it. Do you attempt to stop them from taking your stuff by calling the police (or shooting them?) or do you give it to them and try to give them the gosple? I'm calling the cops. And here's the kicker. I don't think my response is correct. Jesus never tought about hording personal property or worrying about gettng and keeping really neat or junky stuff. It's really about working for the Kingdom. To my shame, I have been working very little as of late. Why? Lots of reasons, mostly just poor excuses.

Now with todays crazy terrorists (mostly Islamic facists) we are in a very real danger of losing all our STUFF. And I don't just mean things but stuff like freedom to worship at all, our very lives if we don't convert or if we are unfortunate enough to be caught in a terrorist style attack here in the states or anywhere people enjoy western style democracy. The question is: Do we fight to keep our stuff? Or let "things" happen and let God sort it out?

Sorry if this is the wrong place for this post, I got a bit carried away. Please, I really want to know what you guys think. Is fighting war always a bad idea? If not, when is it? If it is always a bad idea, what is the altervative? I mean as a country? Should we have an America? Should we just be taken over and wait for Jesus to return? Please understand, I'm not being sarcastic about this at all, I really would like to know what other Christians think. It's a conversation I have with my best friend frequently.

Terry and the guys challenge me to think on these things (although I usually just chalk it up to them being Hippy Christians from California. Not meant as a slam, just the way most of the heartlanders think.) I hope none of you take offense at this but given todays world climate I would love hear what you all think/feel.

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08-11-2006 12:36 BigFiber is offline Send an Email to BigFiber Search for Posts by BigFiber Add BigFiber to your Buddy List
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I think its a trap to fall into thinking Jesus is for or against anything. Its we that are either for or against him. He is not our "party crashing dog in this fight", he is not "subject to our big debates". People try to make him the poster child for their brand of politcs. He is bigger than your view. When it comes to war specifically, God led men to war in the Old Testament. God and Jesus are one. How do you reconcile the apparent contradiction? I reconcile it with purpose. I believe "Governments are an ugly necessity" as GK Chesterton put it. I believe Governments, politcs, war, the Law and these type of things have a purpose of keeping order in a fallen world. They are the fight against evil, evil being the effects of sin. They cannot however remove or destroy sin in the world. They just try and contain the effects.

Christ said he did not come to do away with the Law but fulfill it. The Law serves its fallen world purpose. Christ fulfills His purpose of destroying sin in the world and reconciling man to God. It is a seperate purpose than the Law, and it has a much more final and complete outcome.

Titus 3:9
But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.

Why argue about how best to contain evil in the world, when we know the Gospel which is the answer or solution to destroy its cause?

1 John 3:8
For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

John 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

We as Christians have the answer to the worlds problems in Jesus, our purpose on earth is to live a life pleasing to Him (feeding the sheep, keeping his commandments, doing unto the least) following the will of the Father, and leading people to Christ.
08-11-2006 14:51
wild4jesus567 wild4jesus567 is a female
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RE: Lobo has a point but... Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

quote:

Please, I really want to know what you guys think. Is fighting war always a bad idea? If not, when is it? If it is always a bad idea, what is the altervative? I mean as a country? Should we have an America? Should we just be taken over and wait for Jesus to return? Please understand, I'm not being sarcastic about this at all, I really would like to know what other Christians think. It's a conversation I have with my best friend frequently.


Good question. I don't think there is a clear right or wrong answer. I could never kill anyone but doing nothing is not right either. We thank God for our freedom, but if we believe that war is wrong, how can something good come directly from something wrong? I think war can be okay in some cases. God led people into war. I think it also depends on the person. God may prompt some to go into war and others not. Does this make any sense?

Since i have yet to buy the new album...

from the ones I heard live...thinking...hard decision...That's where Jesus is. but when i buy the album i'll most likely wear it out so then i'll like Broken Like Brooklyn.

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08-11-2006 17:17 wild4jesus567 is offline Send an Email to wild4jesus567 Search for Posts by wild4jesus567 Add wild4jesus567 to your Buddy List
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